[Wing] Re: Wing Digest, Vol 8, Issue 1
gerald conrad
gwcgwc at videotron.ca
Wed Jan 12 19:01:04 PST 2005
Tedd:
This is the forum msg that came today, Jan12/2005.
Gerald Conrad
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: <wing-request at vansairforce.org>
To: <wing at vansairforce.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 11:30 AM
Subject: Wing Digest, Vol 8, Issue 1
> Send Wing mailing list submissions to
> wing at vansairforce.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://vansairforce.org/mailman/listinfo/wing
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> wing-request at vansairforce.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> wing-owner at vansairforce.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Wing digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. RE: Tools For Sale (Hamilton McClymont)
> 2. RV-6 Kit For Sale (gerald conrad)
> 3. RV-4 Project Wanted (Tedd McHenry)
> 4. 24 Years of the RVator (Tedd McHenry)
> 5. Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A (Tedd McHenry)
> 6. Re: Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A (Alan Cornyn)
> 7. Re: Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A (Tedd McHenry)
> 8. Re: Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A (Micheal Freund)
> 9. Re: Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A (Jacob & Grace)
> 10. Re: Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A (Rob Prior)
> 11. Re: Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A (Norman Younie)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 14:41:25 -0700
> From: "Hamilton McClymont" <ham at hammcc.com>
> Subject: RE: [Wing] Tools For Sale
> To: "'Van's Air Force Western Canada Wing'" <wing at vansairforce.org>
> Message-ID: <000101c49e91$6adbe920$603ffea9 at Lamont>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Tedd:
>
> I appreciate you giving me a preview heads up on this. I've passed it
> on to Pete Marshall.
>
> Ham
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wing-bounces at vansairforce.org
> [mailto:wing-bounces at vansairforce.org] On Behalf Of Tedd McHenry
> Sent: September 19, 2004 1:18 PM
> To: Western Canada Wing List
> Subject: [Wing] Tools For Sale
>
>
> This is from the Ontariorvators list. The tools are in Milton, Ontario.
> This looks like a good collection for someone starting an RV project.
> Are is selling the tools because he is moving overseas.
>
> ---
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Van's Air Force
> Western Canada Wing
> tedd at vansairforce.org
> www.vansairforce.org
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:44:48 -0400
> From: gerald conrad <gwcgwc at videotron.ca>
> Subject: [Wing] RV-6 Kit For Sale
> To: wing at vansairforce.org
> Message-ID: <005101c4a4fc$bd3dbbf0$44764645 at Gerry>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252
>
> RV-6 Kit For Sale. Empennage 5% done, Wings 20%, Fuselage & Finishing 0%.
> Slow build. Tip up canopy. Dynafocal engine mount. $15,600 Canadian.
> Reply off line. Pictures available.
>
> Gerry Conrad
> Montreal
> RV-6A ...50 hrs
> RV-6 kit
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 10:49:14 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Tedd McHenry <tedd at vansairforce.org>
> Subject: [Wing] RV-4 Project Wanted
> To: Western Canada Wing List <wing at vansairforce.org>
> Message-ID: <20041012104752.N41066-100000 at strongbad.retrix.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> I have a friend who's looking for an RV-4 project to finish. If you have,
> or
> know of, a project that's for sale, please contact me off-list.
>
> He's also looking for an O-235 for another project.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tedd
>
> ---
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Van's Air Force
> Western Canada Wing
> tedd at vansairforce.org
> www.vansairforce.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:19:23 -0800 (PST)
> From: Tedd McHenry <tedd at vansairforce.org>
> Subject: [Wing] 24 Years of the RVator
> To: Western Canada Wing List <wing at vansairforce.org>
> Message-ID: <20041130100259.D96749-100000 at strongbad.retrix.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> The latest Years of the RVator book, 24 Years of the RVator, is now
> available.
> Susan and I edited this edition, and we're quite proud of how it turned
> out.
>
> The book is an authorized collection of technical articles from Van's
> newsletter, the RVator. If you're building an RV, or planning to, you may
> find
> it very helpful. It's available for US$29.95 from,
>
> Van's Aircraft:
> http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1100705322-128-81&browse=videos&product=24yrs
>
> Builder's Bookstore:
> http://www.buildersbooks.com/24_years_of_the_rvator_vans_.htm
>
> Kitplanes Bookstore:
> http://www.kitplanesbooks.com/24_years_of_the_rvator_vans_.htm
>
> or by donating US$90 or more to the Matronics RV List listserver:
> https://matronics.com/contribution/checksupport.2004.html
>
> There are hundreds of articles, complete with photos and illustrations, on
> all
> apsects of RV building and flying, from selecting tools to test flying,
> aerobatics, and formation. Many of the articles are by Van himself, or
> other
> members of the Van's engineering and production staff. Others are
> contributed
> by builders, sharing their tips and techniques for building or customizing
> their RVs.
>
> ---
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Van's Air Force
> Western Canada Wing
> tedd at vansairforce.org
> www.vansairforce.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 18:52:59 -0800 (PST)
> From: Tedd McHenry <tedd at vansairforce.org>
> Subject: [Wing] Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A
> To: Western Canada Wing List <wing at vansairforce.org>
> Cc: Bryan and Marge Carr <b.m.carr at telus.net>, GMC <gmcnutt at shaw.ca>,
> Scott Jackson <jayeandscott at telus.net>
> Message-ID: <20050109184832.P76742-100000 at strongbad.retrix.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> I received a request from Kevin Horton, of the Ontario RVators, for spin
> test
> results for the side-by-side RVs. Apparently, RVers in the UK are having
> trouble getting aerobatic approval for the type from their PFA. They need
> documented spin test results. If you have spin tested your side-by-side
> RV,
> and can document the results, please contact me.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Tedd
>
> ---
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Van's Air Force
> Western Canada Wing
> tedd at vansairforce.org
> www.vansairforce.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 08:50:49 -0700
> From: "Alan Cornyn" <acornyn at telusplanet.net>
> Subject: Re: [Wing] Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A
> To: "Van's Air Force Western Canada Wing" <wing at vansairforce.org>
> Message-ID: <000d01c4f72c$28edc7b0$1f00a8c0 at OFFICE1>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Van strongly reccommends not ever spinning an RV-6. He said he only did
> it
> once and hired someone else to do the testing. They spin at an icreadble
> rate of speed, but they do recover using usual technique. He has said
> this
> more than once in the RVator. Al RV-6 flying 400 hours.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tedd McHenry" <tedd at vansairforce.org>
> To: "Western Canada Wing List" <wing at vansairforce.org>
> Cc: "Bryan and Marge Carr" <b.m.carr at telus.net>; "GMC" <gmcnutt at shaw.ca>;
> "Scott Jackson" <jayeandscott at telus.net>
> Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 7:52 PM
> Subject: [Wing] Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A
>
>
>> I received a request from Kevin Horton, of the Ontario RVators, for spin
> test
>> results for the side-by-side RVs. Apparently, RVers in the UK are having
>> trouble getting aerobatic approval for the type from their PFA. They
>> need
>> documented spin test results. If you have spin tested your side-by-side
> RV,
>> and can document the results, please contact me.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Tedd
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Tedd McHenry
>> Van's Air Force
>> Western Canada Wing
>> tedd at vansairforce.org
>> www.vansairforce.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wing mailing list
>> Wing at vansairforce.org
>> http://vansairforce.org/mailman/listinfo/wing
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 08:48:19 -0800 (PST)
> From: Tedd McHenry <tedd at vansairforce.org>
> Subject: Re: [Wing] Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A
> To: "Van's Air Force Western Canada Wing" <wing at vansairforce.org>
> Message-ID: <20050111082018.U21980-100000 at strongbad.retrix.com>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Mon, 10 Jan 2005, Alan Cornyn wrote:
>
>> Van strongly reccommends not ever spinning an RV-6. He said he only did
>> it
>> once and hired someone else to do the testing. They spin at an icreadble
>> rate of speed, but they do recover using usual technique. He has said
>> this
>> more than once in the RVator. Al RV-6 flying 400 hours.
>
> Al:
>
> I appreciate the desire for caution, but you've overstated Van's case.
> Van's
> latest word on the subject is Service Bulletin 02-6-1, which is available
> at
> http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb02-6-1.pdf. In it he says,
>
> "We chose to recommend that RV-6 pilots concentrate on learning spin
> recognition, immediate recovery, and spin avoidance rather than
> encouraging
> them to explore the limits of spin recoverability. We also recommended
> that the
> RV-6 not be used for recreational spins. Section 15 of the RV-6
> Construction
> Manual details spin testing, spin recovery techniques, and spin limitation
> recommendations for pilots."
>
> Section 15 of the RV-6 construction manual says,
>
> "For the pilot anticipating aerobatic use of his RV-6, this will include
> stall
> entries from steep pitch angles and banks, and accelerated stalls from
> similar
> attidudes. Similarly, spins should be practiced from various entry
> attitudes
> and power settings. Obviously, initial spin testing should be done with
> the
> airplane loaded to a forward C.G. and entry attitudes should be moderate.
> With
> satisfactory recovery, loading and entry attidudes can be increased to
> anticipated limits."
>
> Clearly, Van is not recommending never spinning the RV-6. To the
> contrary, he
> specifically recommends spin testing for builders who plan on aerobatics,
> and
> provides some detail on how to accomplish it. Van also says that, with
> the
> larger tail, "RV-7 spin recovery qualities are equal to or better than
> those of
> the standard RV-6/6A, which have been service proven through fleet
> experience."
>
> I hear a lot of loose talk about RV spin characteristics, and I worry that
> the
> airplanes are getting a wholly undeserved reputation. If that "meme"
> catches
> on it will cause us grief down the road. "I was going to buy an RV-7, but
> then
> I heard about the spin characteristics." We've seen it before with other
> airplanes.
>
> Tedd
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 16:43:27 -0800
> From: "Micheal Freund" <mifreund at netidea.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wing] Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A
> To: "Van's Air Force Western Canada Wing" <wing at vansairforce.org>
> Message-ID: <001d01c4f83f$bb5d52a0$f3abfea9 at u4e8x4>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks Tedd for making the correction regarding spin recovery.As I am
> ready
> with C-GZGV to make the first flight I am particularly interested in this
> issue.I agree with you it is important not propagate false information.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tedd McHenry" <tedd at vansairforce.org>
> To: "Van's Air Force Western Canada Wing" <wing at vansairforce.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 8:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [Wing] Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A
>
>
>> On Mon, 10 Jan 2005, Alan Cornyn wrote:
>>
>> > Van strongly reccommends not ever spinning an RV-6. He said he only
>> > did
> it
>> > once and hired someone else to do the testing. They spin at an
> icreadble
>> > rate of speed, but they do recover using usual technique. He has said
> this
>> > more than once in the RVator. Al RV-6 flying 400 hours.
>>
>> Al:
>>
>> I appreciate the desire for caution, but you've overstated Van's case.
> Van's
>> latest word on the subject is Service Bulletin 02-6-1, which is available
> at
>> http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb02-6-1.pdf. In it he says,
>>
>> "We chose to recommend that RV-6 pilots concentrate on learning spin
>> recognition, immediate recovery, and spin avoidance rather than
> encouraging
>> them to explore the limits of spin recoverability. We also recommended
> that the
>> RV-6 not be used for recreational spins. Section 15 of the RV-6
> Construction
>> Manual details spin testing, spin recovery techniques, and spin
>> limitation
>> recommendations for pilots."
>>
>> Section 15 of the RV-6 construction manual says,
>>
>> "For the pilot anticipating aerobatic use of his RV-6, this will include
> stall
>> entries from steep pitch angles and banks, and accelerated stalls from
> similar
>> attidudes. Similarly, spins should be practiced from various entry
> attitudes
>> and power settings. Obviously, initial spin testing should be done with
> the
>> airplane loaded to a forward C.G. and entry attitudes should be moderate.
> With
>> satisfactory recovery, loading and entry attidudes can be increased to
>> anticipated limits."
>>
>> Clearly, Van is not recommending never spinning the RV-6. To the
> contrary, he
>> specifically recommends spin testing for builders who plan on aerobatics,
> and
>> provides some detail on how to accomplish it. Van also says that, with
> the
>> larger tail, "RV-7 spin recovery qualities are equal to or better than
> those of
>> the standard RV-6/6A, which have been service proven through fleet
> experience."
>>
>> I hear a lot of loose talk about RV spin characteristics, and I worry
>> that
> the
>> airplanes are getting a wholly undeserved reputation. If that "meme"
> catches
>> on it will cause us grief down the road. "I was going to buy an RV-7,
>> but
> then
>> I heard about the spin characteristics." We've seen it before with other
>> airplanes.
>>
>> Tedd
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wing mailing list
>> Wing at vansairforce.org
>> http://vansairforce.org/mailman/listinfo/wing
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:16:13 -0800
> From: "Jacob & Grace" <grizzlybear at klondiker.com>
> Subject: Re: [Wing] Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A
> To: "Van's Air Force Western Canada Wing" <wing at vansairforce.org>
> Message-ID: <002f01c4f84c$b09a9460$82e7f7c7 at D9PQ6L21>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> I will be ready in a few months, bureaucracy willing.
>
> In the MDRA list of requirements they refer to certification to satisfy
> them
> about the aircraft conformity and aerobatic capability? They want to
> confirm the design limits but doesn't say how?
>
> Did you need something from Vans? (Like a letter)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Micheal Freund" <mifreund at netidea.com>
> To: "Van's Air Force Western Canada Wing" <wing at vansairforce.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 4:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [Wing] Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A
>
>
>> Thanks Tedd for making the correction regarding spin recovery.As I am
>> ready
>> with C-GZGV to make the first flight I am particularly interested in this
>> issue.I agree with you it is important not propagate false information.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tedd McHenry" <tedd at vansairforce.org>
>> To: "Van's Air Force Western Canada Wing" <wing at vansairforce.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 8:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Wing] Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A
>>
>>
>>> On Mon, 10 Jan 2005, Alan Cornyn wrote:
>>>
>>> > Van strongly reccommends not ever spinning an RV-6. He said he only
>>> > did
>> it
>>> > once and hired someone else to do the testing. They spin at an
>> icreadble
>>> > rate of speed, but they do recover using usual technique. He has said
>> this
>>> > more than once in the RVator. Al RV-6 flying 400 hours.
>>>
>>> Al:
>>>
>>> I appreciate the desire for caution, but you've overstated Van's case.
>> Van's
>>> latest word on the subject is Service Bulletin 02-6-1, which is
>>> available
>> at
>>> http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb02-6-1.pdf. In it he says,
>>>
>>> "We chose to recommend that RV-6 pilots concentrate on learning spin
>>> recognition, immediate recovery, and spin avoidance rather than
>> encouraging
>>> them to explore the limits of spin recoverability. We also recommended
>> that the
>>> RV-6 not be used for recreational spins. Section 15 of the RV-6
>> Construction
>>> Manual details spin testing, spin recovery techniques, and spin
>>> limitation
>>> recommendations for pilots."
>>>
>>> Section 15 of the RV-6 construction manual says,
>>>
>>> "For the pilot anticipating aerobatic use of his RV-6, this will include
>> stall
>>> entries from steep pitch angles and banks, and accelerated stalls from
>> similar
>>> attidudes. Similarly, spins should be practiced from various entry
>> attitudes
>>> and power settings. Obviously, initial spin testing should be done with
>> the
>>> airplane loaded to a forward C.G. and entry attitudes should be
>>> moderate.
>> With
>>> satisfactory recovery, loading and entry attidudes can be increased to
>>> anticipated limits."
>>>
>>> Clearly, Van is not recommending never spinning the RV-6. To the
>> contrary, he
>>> specifically recommends spin testing for builders who plan on
>>> aerobatics,
>> and
>>> provides some detail on how to accomplish it. Van also says that, with
>> the
>>> larger tail, "RV-7 spin recovery qualities are equal to or better than
>> those of
>>> the standard RV-6/6A, which have been service proven through fleet
>> experience."
>>>
>>> I hear a lot of loose talk about RV spin characteristics, and I worry
>>> that
>> the
>>> airplanes are getting a wholly undeserved reputation. If that "meme"
>> catches
>>> on it will cause us grief down the road. "I was going to buy an RV-7,
>>> but
>> then
>>> I heard about the spin characteristics." We've seen it before with
>>> other
>>> airplanes.
>>>
>>> Tedd
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wing mailing list
>>> Wing at vansairforce.org
>>> http://vansairforce.org/mailman/listinfo/wing
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wing mailing list
>> Wing at vansairforce.org
>> http://vansairforce.org/mailman/listinfo/wing
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 08:22:04 -0800
> From: "Rob Prior" <rv7 at b4.ca>
> Subject: Re: [Wing] Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A
> To: "Van's Air Force Western Canada Wing" <wing at vansairforce.org>
> Message-ID: <41E54EAC.30305 at b4.ca>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> Jacob & Grace wrote:
>> In the MDRA list of requirements they refer to certification to satisfy
>> them about the aircraft conformity and aerobatic capability? They want
>> to confirm the design limits but doesn't say how?
>
> I believe in Canada you need to demonstrate the manoeuvers that you wish
> to perform to a Transport Canada representative... I don't think MD-RA
> has anything to do with Aerobatic certifications. Van has already
> published that the airframes are +6/-4G design, which meets the Canadian
> requirements for aerobatics.
>
> Strictly speaking, you only need to demonstrate a loop, a roll, and a
> spin, as all other manoeuvers are just combinations thereof.
>
> -Rob
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 16:29:23 +0000
> From: Norman Younie <rv6capt at pacificcoast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Wing] Spin Testing: RV-6/6A or RV-7/7A
> To: rv7 at b4.ca, "Van's Air Force Western Canada Wing"
> <wing at vansairforce.org>
> Message-ID: <41E55063.50505 at pacificcoast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> When I had the restrictions removed from my RV-6 and RV-7 I had to go
> out and perform the maneuvers that I wanted to do. Record it in the log
> book that there were no adverse effects to the plane and show the log to
> TC. They then issued a new C of A. Plus they extracted some money from me.
>
> Rob Prior wrote:
>
>> Jacob & Grace wrote:
>>
>>> In the MDRA list of requirements they refer to certification to
>>> satisfy them about the aircraft conformity and aerobatic capability?
>>> They want to confirm the design limits but doesn't say how?
>>
>>
>> I believe in Canada you need to demonstrate the manoeuvers that you
>> wish to perform to a Transport Canada representative... I don't think
>> MD-RA has anything to do with Aerobatic certifications. Van has
>> already published that the airframes are +6/-4G design, which meets
>> the Canadian requirements for aerobatics.
>>
>> Strictly speaking, you only need to demonstrate a loop, a roll, and a
>> spin, as all other manoeuvers are just combinations thereof.
>>
>> -Rob
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wing mailing list
>> Wing at vansairforce.org
>> http://vansairforce.org/mailman/listinfo/wing
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.298 / Virus Database: 265.6.10 - Release Date: 1/10/2005
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wing mailing list
> Wing at vansairforce.org
> http://vansairforce.org/mailman/listinfo/wing
>
>
> End of Wing Digest, Vol 8, Issue 1
> **********************************
More information about the Wing
mailing list