[Wing] Re: MD-RA Consumer satisfaction?

[Jacob & Grace]

William, I think you are right on about the "franchise", but there is possibly one more issue involved in the situation being discussed here, at least for me.  When Transport Canada began denying my requests to do inspections, I then inquired about the possibility of getting our own MD-RA inspector for the Yukon.   I was told that MD-RA inspectors need training and certification from TC, and need to stay current (sounds logical?) but, because MD-RA inspectors would not do enough inspections up here, they were reluctant to pay for the required training.  I have tried to ask about this but never received an answer.  Perhaps someone knows about this?  If TC and "Eastern bureacrats" get their way and force me to deal with MD-RA, I am going to need to know my options.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: William Robson 
  To: wing at vansairforce.org 
  Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 9:34 AM
  Subject: Re: [Wing] Re: MD-RA Consumer satisfaction?


  Hello Jim
  I have read with interest the comments that have passed back and forth on this subject.  I am really surprised at all those Recreational Builders out there that are prepared to just play dead and pay for a second rate service.  The local MD-RA inspectors are jewels and should receive as much consideration as possible.  The guy that should be made aware of the poor service is
  Maurice A. Simoneau
  Senior Civil Aviation Safety Inspector,
  Maintenance and Manufacturing Recreational Aircraft, Tower "C" Place de Ville
  330 Sparks Street, 2nd Floor
  Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, K1A 0N8
  Telephone (613) 990-9490, Fax (613) 952-3298, Internet simonem at tc.gc.ca
  If everyone started ringing this guys phone off the wall he may get on to London Ontario and improve the service.  One of the major problems as I see it is the lack of inspectors available.  London Ontario will not provide any money to increase the number of inspectors.  I was looking at the Fee Schedule that was previously listed.  I just checked my RAA builder's Manual and there were a few costs left out of the first quote.  Listed below for your reference,-
  Fee Schedule 2001
  Information Package $ 8.03
  Letter of Intent $21.40
  51% Determination $101.65
  Sub-Assembly $139.10
  Pre-Cover/Pre-Paint $197.95
  Final (includes $250.00 for Cof R) $513.60
  Supplementary (Re-visits) for any inspection $69.55
  Plus travel expenses for the inspector at $0.50 per Kilometre.  The way I count that comes to $1051.28 just for inspections alone and not counting travel expenses.  When I last talked to London Ontario concerning Inspection Service I was told that MD-RA have a franchise just like the Post Office in the corner drug store.  It is apparently Transport Canada responsibility to protect and keep MD-RA secure with their inspection Service.  I hope my comments will be helpful to someone.
  Regards to All
  Bill Robson
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Jim Jewell 
    To: wing at vansairforce.org 
    Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 3:20 AM
    Subject: Re: [Wing] Re: MD-RA Consumer satisfaction?


    Todd,

    Over the last week or so I have exchanged a couple of rounds of 'You said, I say' type emails with Terry Elgood. He is the BC. area Chief inspector. When I asked him today what fees to expect His answer was.  

    >"TE, The October 2000 fee schedule shows; 
    >
    > Letter of intent    $8.03 ,
    > Pre-closing        $197.95,
    > Final                  $513.60 (includes $ 250.00 for C of R) 
    >
    >After 25 hours, contact the nearest Transport Canada office for the C of A."

    When I add to that the mileage to my area from Kamloops for the volunteer I see an estimated total come in quite near to a $900.00. Figure in T.C.fee about $35.00 for a larger area to fly off the 25 hr. in. There could be one more small optional TC. fee for $25.00.    
    If I have it right, that is a good percentage less than the $1200.00 plus rumors I was hearing a short time ago.
    Still a noticeable hit for somewhat less than ideal services rendered   

    In my closing comment to Terry (Quoted below) I came to basically the same conclusion as you about the general content of the emails. They seem to indicate that the service, communications, paperwork handling etc.at the office level needs to be worked on. On reading My words again I might well have worded it a bit stronger.
    It does seem to me that fairly serious service refinements that have been needed since day one are to say the very least rather slow in coming. The bureaucratic attitude is a tough nut to crack eh. (:-)!

    I would like to think these recent email exchanges might have focused some attention where it will do some good. However I'm not waiting and holding my breath about it. 

    The closing quote; 
    "I think that the responses that came out of the email questionnaires have provided a generally 
    neutral result. Neutral seems good. Few complaints with the volunteers, most seemed to point 
    at delays with paper handling, Attitude and communications.     
    All in all, quite a low number of responses. With only a few more complaints than kudos.
    There where several with mixed feeling about services rendered, A few of those 
    aimed at T.C., the larger remaining number aimed at the MD-RA"

    As far as people being penalized for speaking out Todd. We take that chance I suppose because the outcome of not taking that chance has it's own reward to ponder. The meek shall inherit the earth. I guess if you want all that dirt Have at it (;-]!


    Todd I just received your more recent email.
    I feel that I have some blame in getting you a fair bit lathered up. I do hope the information above helps level off the pressure a bit.(8-)!
    Like you I think that The prime goal of bureaucracy is imagined in it's own mind and broadcast as public protection.
    However in it's gut, feeding and growing and controling grumble on ceaselessly!

    Thanks go out to all the contributors, I have all the inputs in a file and will continue to add more if they continue to come.

    Jim in Kelowna      
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Haywire 
      To: wing at vansairforce.org 
      Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2003 11:06 PM
      Subject: RE: [Wing] Re: MD-RA Consumer satisfaction?


      Hi Jim;
          As you seemed insistent on hearing more comments on the MD-RA process, I assumed that you also had unpleasant dealings with them. Reading today's mail, the letters all suggest the same thing. Everybody seems happy with the local inspectors who all do a fine job for nothing more than their travel cost, but it seems that service from headquarters is less than acceptable. Even those that didn't seem overly upset over delays mentioned follow-up calls, lost paper work, etc. This is from the office that is charging the exorbitant fees. Completely unacceptable IMHO.
          I feel that I should have kept quite until after I had finished with all the bureaucracy and I wonder how many others are hesitant to speak up because of this. Gotta love monopolies, heh?

      S. Todd Bartrim
      Turbo 13B
      RV-9endurance
      C-FSTB
      http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm

               "Whatever you vividly imagine, Ardently desire, Sincerely believe in, Enthusiastically act upon, Must inevitably come to pass".



        -----Original Message-----
        From: wing-admin at vansairforce.org [mailto:wing-admin at vansairforce.org]On Behalf Of Jim Jewell
        Sent: June 19, 2003 2:01 AM
        To: wing at vansairforce.org
        Subject: Re: [Wing] Re: MD-RA Consumer satisfaction?


        Hi Todd,

        Like you my start with the bureaucrats 6 years ago was not satisfying. I began with the RAA and then the MD-RA came along. At that time I was pretty ticked off at them.
        I am currently involved in an email exchange with One MD-RA person. It's hard to say how that will come out.
        So far I don't see too much by way of complaints in this type of format.
        With all the vocal stuff I have heard in the local area I did expect to see more traffic.

        Also I have not seen much by way of suggestions, Such as how 'not' to get off on the wrong foot, how to prepare for an inspection, how to help the inspector or whatever. 

        So far I'm told the MD-RA is a non profit organization. Is that in fact true?
        If the fact is that MD-RA is not paying the volunteers I would have to agree with you that the fees do seem to be out of line.
        However, if the MD-RA has hired someone, some people or a management company the money could be going there.
        Do you have an idea of the total cost for an inspection from letter of intent to the finish of the 25 hour test flying time? I hear that it tops $1200.00 these days.

        Thanks and Happy rotarying (;-} !

        Jim in Kelowna

          
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