[Wing] DeltaHawk Diesel

[Harv Wregget]

Thanks for the quick reply Tedd.  DeltaHawk plans to sell their 200 hp
engine for $18,000 US, about 2/3 the cost of the IO360A2.  It sounds too
good to be true, but just in case their numbers prove correct, I have listed
myself with them for delivery for no money down.  Now I better get to work
on a RV 8.

Thanks again,

Harv

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tedd McHenry" <tedd at vansairforce.org>
To: <wing at vansairforce.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Wing] Re: Jabiru Engines


> Harv:
>
> I haven't been following the DeltaHawk, specifically, all that closely.
But I
> think diesel aircraft engines have a very strong future.  There's a good
> article about some of the European diesel aircraft engines in the
November,
> 2001 issue of Flyer, a magazine from the UK.  Reading between the lines,
it
> appears that diesel aircraft engines are a done deal, so far as the
Europeans
> are concerned.  Because of the diesel's greater efficiency, and especially
> because of the fuel taxes in Europe, the cost savings with a diesel are
> enormous over there.
>
> However, the economics of diesels in North America is quite different.
> Europeans are prepared to pay more, up front, for a diesel engine, with
the
> promise of significantly lower operating costs.  The European diesel
> manufacturers aren't claiming that they can match the up-front price of a
> Lycoming.  In North America, however, with a much lower cost of fuel,
customers
> are more interested in up-front cost.  This is particularly true in the
> homebuilt market.  It appears that a lot of what drives the experimental
engine
> movement in North America is the goal of lower up-front cost than a
Lycoming,
> or perhaps better performance for the same cost.  Consider the two most
popular
> new engines for RVs, the Chevy V6 and the Mazda rotary.  Neither engine
can
> match a Lycoming's fuel efficiency.  But either one can give you similar
> performance for less money or, in the case of the rotary, and with some
> engineering, better performance for about the same money.
>
> The goal of the NASA/GAP diesel engine program is somewhere between the
> European model and the V6/rotary model.  They're aiming to keep the cost
down
> through lower parts count (and government-subsidized development!), and
gain
> the fuel efficiency advantages of a diesel for about the same up-front
cost as
> a Lycoming, maybe a bit lower.  I don't know where the DeltaHawk fits into
that
> picture.  To be successful, I think they need to sell for not just less
than
> list price for a Lycoming, but also less than the discounted price that
most
> Lycoming customers get these days, through Van's, Lancair, Sequoia, or
> whomever.  That will be very hard to do, since the development cost of a
> Lycoming is already amortized long ago.  Also, the heavily discounted
price
> that Van's and other companies get make it clear that Textron-Lycoming is
> milking the piston engine market, and will drop their list prices
significantly
> if they ever get much competition.  To me that makes what DeltaHawk is
trying
> to do very difficult.
>
> I believe the best hope for a viable alternative to Lycomings in the
150-200 Hp
> range, which the homebuilt market badly needs, lies in two areas.  The
first is
> engines built overseas, in places with lower cost of production.  The
Jabiru is
> the best example I know of.  With the Australian dollar hovering around 50
> cents U.S., and using modern design and manufacturing techniques, Jabiru
can
> produce a superior engine for less cost.  They're already doing this in
the
> 80-120 HP range.  The new 180 HP engine will probably prove to be superior
to a
> Lycoming also, and at a lower price, although it's obviously too early to
claim
> that yet.  The second place we'll get alternatives to Lycoming is in
home-grown
> development of auto conversions, and the leading candidate there is the
Mazda
> rotary.  Rotary homebuilders are beginning to organize themselves along
the
> lines of the open-source software movement.  This is a very efficient way
to do
> engineering development, and I have very high hope for this movement.  In
much
> the same way that open source software provides a viable alternative to
the
> near-monopoly of Microsoft (including, for example, the software that runs
this
> email group), a homebuilder-based movement of rotary engine deveopment
could
> provide a viable alternative to the near-monopoly of Lycoming in the
150-200 HP
> engine market.
>
> As for the technical merit of the DeltaHawk engine, I can't really comment
> because I haven't looked at it that closely.
>
> Tedd
>
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